BCTW Universal Jaw Idea

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BCTW Universal Jaw Idea

Postby John » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:25 pm

After 10 or so permutations, I believe this is the most versatile version and as is almost always the case, the most simple. Here are the details;

I am only showing one jaw for clarity. This is an expanded version of the orange jaws that come with the DJ-1 with several mods.

Added are additional grooves for larger dowels and rectangular stock. It is now possible to drill down the corner of 2 x 2 rec/round stock and everything smaller. This really satisfies a need I have--likely you too if you don't know it yet...

I am not sure we will include 6 pins as pictured, but 4 for sure. In this image the pins are tapered. Their opposite receives this taper so you can align both pins perfectly to a reference (t-bevel in most cases).

The pins are locked to the plate with a SS cap screw and can be positioned anywhere along the length of the groove to reference your stock at an angle to the drill.

This is simple and can accommodate all things emanating from my pea brain--so far.

The slots also allow you ample clamping area for your unique needs down the road. Fixtures for weird stuff like handles and other hard to hold "out of the box" ideas that Bridge Citizens are noted for.

The only drawback (I think) to this adapter is it's length. I like the outriggers (the grey part) to fall into my vise jaws--these jaws will likely bottom out on the lead screw or guide rods. Not a big deal but full disclosure is important.

For those of you who are actively using the DJ-1 please post your thoughts--otherwise this will go into production as illustrated.

Thanks in advance--I had to post this ASAP before Rutager unloads all of his ideas and forces us in to bankruptcy issuing prizes.

--John


Image
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Postby rwest » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:04 pm

John,

I'm really liking this!

By looking at it I'm thinking that it will be possible to mount things to the backside also, correct? My thinking is that a stop could be added to the back that was "L" shaped and adjustable to set a length stop if several things needed to have holes drilled in the exact same place. To take it a step further, maybe flip stops could be placed along the stop for repetitve holes too!

When you get the slot spacing figured out could you let me know, so I can make sure my latest creations will fit the new one!

I can't wait for this to show up on the porch!

-Rutager
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Postby John » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:36 pm

Rutager; Here is the tentative back view--are you saying you could use T-slots back here?

Explain to me how they would not also be a pain in the arse too.

The red components are the cap screw heads.

--John

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Re: BCTW Universal Jaw Idea

Postby savatteridesigns » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:27 pm

John wrote:
.........I am not sure we will include 6 pins as pictured, but 4 for sure. In this image the pins are tapered. Their opposite receives this taper so you can align both pins perfectly to a reference (t-bevel in most cases).


Image


John,

I really like where this is going.
A few questions for clarity sake...
When you say above 6 pins as pictured.
That's six pins - "implied" for both sides?, cause in the "picture" I only see three. (I don't mean to split hairs!)

And I'm not sure if I understand the correlation of the tapered elements in regards to the pins - that you are speaking of.

What would the length of the slots be?

I have more thoughts, but I first need to get beyond this.

,,,roger

.
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Postby rwest » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:30 pm

John,

I don't see why the same slots couldn't be used to mount things on the back side also. My thought would be to have whatever is to be mounted on the back be thinner than the outrigger piece so it wouldn't interfere with clamping the DJ-1 in a vise. The stop arm that I'm thinking about would be a long piece of material that was sloted and could be moved in and out to register one or more stops.

-Rutager
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Postby John » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:15 pm

Roger;

You are looking at one half, a mirror image so to speak. As of this writing, I see a need for only two pins per jaw and they can be placed in any of the three tracks.

Say you want the pins to be locked at 22.5 degrees. You would have to set each set (assuming 2 per jaw) on each jaw independently and in the same location on each jaw--next to impossible without some way to index the pins to each other. Therefore, when setting these pins, you close the jaws until the pins nest--(you are looking at the male pin in my illustration) then you use a t-bevel to adjust the nested pins to 22.5 degrees. At this point they then can be tightened and they are dead on.

Rutager;

What do you have in mind--specifically? I can see some uses for t-slots on the outside, and this is easy enough to do but I am not sure I understand your needs (in a woodworking sense mind you...).

--John
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Postby savatteridesigns » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:02 am

John,

Got it. - thank you for the explanation.

So now my next questions/suggestions,

My first question concerns the two alignment pins that sets the jaw into the grey body. At present the orange jaws that came with the DJ-1 (as well as the green and blue jaws) are flip-able to be able to be used in two positions.
Would you not want to have the opportunity to be able to do the same with the new purple jaws? Let's say for instance you had a six inch diameter cylinder that you wanted to drill into - having that horizontal v-groove on the bottom rather than on the top (next to the grey body) could prove to be more useful.

My second question concerns having the opportunity to use the orange jaws in conjunction with the new purple jaws. I'm back to that large horizontal v-groove again. I think it would be handy to be able to set the orange jaw at incremental positions up and down along the purple jaw in order to accommodate a floating v-groove, so to speak. So in fact piggy-backing the orange onto the purple. It would just be a matter of drilling sets of four holes at intervals in order to accept the orange jaw we already have. Actually as well as piggy-backing the blue and green jaws as well. So the same screws that attach the jaws at present to the grey body would then attach the various jaws to the purple extender.
(Yes, we would have to then have four more screws in our DJ-1 kit.)

Also, by having those floating sets of holes incrementally spaced would also provide access for future jigs onto the purple jaws in the same way you put the holes thru-out the JMP base plates and table tops.

roger

.
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Postby rwest » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:20 am

Hi,

I think Roger makes some great points! It would be nice to have grooves in lower areas for large stock, or a way to move the original jaws.

As far as my outside mounting goes, I can CAD out a crude drawing tonight for you to see what I'm trying to accomplish. Could you email me the file you show here?(I won't sell it to the competion! Is there any competion?)and I'll add my stop bar to it and send it back.

-Rutager
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Postby John » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:09 pm

Hi Folks-

Thanks for the feedback--it is helpful since several of you have now logged more hours on the DJ-1 than anyone here.

Here's how this jaw system works;

You have a need to drill a precise angled hole so set that angle to a t-bevel. (We have a tool soon to be announced that will make this really easy...)

The angle is set with the female pins only--and you would adjust the index pins to touch the bevel blade accordingly (using only 2 per jaw). There are three slots for these pins to address any angle whereby the pin my encounter a void due to the "V" grooves--just look at the pin on the left to see why this would not work.

Once the female pins are set, you close the jaws allowing the male pins (which are loose) to nest in the females--then tighten. This makes the top surface of all pins planar to the desired angle. It is that easy.

In this permutation added we added more V grooves. As of this writing, I can see almost no benefit of drilling these plates to accept the original jaws, this should do it. Yes/No?

In these illustrations there are 3 pins per jaw only to illustrate that the v groove intersects the pin on the left requiring it to be moved to the center groove.

Image

Image

Let me know.

--John
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Postby rwest » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:29 pm

John,

I think this will work very well. The ability to move the orange jaws around the jig would be very useful, but that means being able to place them at user defined angles. so I would like to have the ability to attach something similar to the shop made plates I built for my offset jaws. Could you have a plate made that could hold the jaws and be locked down with the adjustable buttons? That way a dowel or square stock on edge could be drilled at an angle.

-Rutager
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Postby rwest » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:56 pm

John,

On second thought, why go through the hassle of mounting the jaws to a plate when a set could be milled with the grooves and be held with the buttons. I at first thought that the vertical grooves wouldn't be needed, but you could drill into the corner of the end of the stock if they were there. I'm not sure why you would want to, but it could be done to a cool effect!

-Rutager

P.S. You did ask for our opinons!
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Postby John » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:41 pm

Find fault with this version;

Image

This does everything you guys have asked for to date.

Again, this is one half. To index one jaw to the other, put a dowel in one of the V grooves (I would use drill rod personally) close and lock.

Tilts to 45 degrees with longitudinal travel to accommodate thicker stock.

--John
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Postby savatteridesigns » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:57 pm

John,

As far as what you just discussed, I like the fact that you added the additional grooves, so now we don't have to flip the jaw around to hold a larger cylinder.

I get the way your holding the block at an odd angle below to be drilled.
But,,,,,, now I want to see you put a cylinder as you have the block in the images below. Now we get back to what Rutager is talking about to have a floating plate/jaws to hold at any desired angle.

One more thing, (for now),
I think I would like to see probably about 4 countersink holes on the face shown below in order to accommodate a 1/4 inch flat head bolt or wood screw.
The purpose of which to fasten to two cubes or wooden L brackets to the back side - which would act as a stand alone stand - one for each jaw. (which could then be fastened down to a table if necessary. This would allow one too get away from using a vise jaws on a workbench. (especially if one is not using it in a shop environment where one wouldn't have access to one - it also allows frees the limitation that you spoke about earlier in your first post.

Also, let's say you wanted to double (or triple) the height of the jaws,
could the bottom of the purple jaw accommodate a sliding dovetail joint?

The bottom would be the female portion the male on the top.
Or some other way in order to stack these puppies.

You could make it as high as the number of sets you purchase.

By the way, to be honest......... I was thinking champagne color at first but the purple is growing on me!

Roger

Image

Image

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Last edited by savatteridesigns on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby savatteridesigns » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:11 pm

John wrote:Find fault with this version;

Image
This does everything you guys have asked for to date.
Again, this is one half. To index one jaw to the other, put a dowel in one of the V grooves (I would use drill rod personally) close and lock.
Tilts to 45 degrees with longitudinal travel to accommodate thicker stock.
--John


We almost posted at the same time!

I really like it! ...........almost.
Especially the vertical v grooves.

Now all it needs is the countersink holes I talked about above and the sliding dovetail joints!
(Or a really good explanation of why it doesn't need it!)

Roger

ps. I have more thoughts on the bottom v groove you originally put on the purple jaw - but I need to munch on what I need to say next. - latter this evening. (It goes to maximizing large objects between the jaws)

.
Last edited by savatteridesigns on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby rwest » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:13 pm

John,

I'm loving it! you're a genius, and I can find no faults. SHIP IT!

-Rutager
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